I quoted you in my Substack this week, where I continue to argue for uplifting humanity, so we are proud of being such an extraordinary species, as the best focus for our survival.
Ronald Logan, in Regeneration of America’s Damaged Civic Psyche, reported this: “Finland was a profoundly divided nation. One hundred years ago, no one could have imagined that Finland was destined to become the world’s happiest country. Finland’s Civil War was the most deadly to have happened in Europe. Finland went from Europe’s most miserable country to the world’s happiest, from the most divided people to the most united.”
Ron, I am deeply grateful for your shout out to my work in this piece you just published.
I very much appreciate your taking the recursive process idea to the next level. By moving it past diagnosis to repair, and thinking about it recursively you’ve opened up some promising new ways to frame repair efforts.
To recover from the difficult crisis point we are in we will need to work on creating realistic and trustworthy containers that provide: shared reality, accountable authority, trustworthy and transparent institutions, material supports, and day to day practices that offer people agency, mutual obligation and real-life experiences of repair. It seems to me that such a process will be one that looks like “two steps forward, one step back” as we move steadily toward new ways of organizing personal, social, and civic contexts.
Your article offers a hopeful approach to the task ahead.
What I’ve been coming down to for what would underlie the best chance we have for a successful future is to infuse humanity with a sense of its magnificence. We are such hot stuff among the creatures. The only ones who can affect the creation. Wow. My post today is about that. Listen to Brian Swimme for the essence of what humanity could get excited about: https://suzannetaylor.substack.com/p/get-real-that-could-be-a-campaign.
Suzanne: Christy reported to me at length about the great program you organized in which Brian was the featured guest. I regretted missing it. So I'm glad you've posted a short video by Brian in your latest article. Did you happen to record the whole meeting with him?
As you've probably noticed, I've been a bit overwhelmed of late and have had to cut back some. This has resulted in my admiring your initiatives from a distance but not being there to actively support them. In the instance of the program with Brain, this was my loss.
I’ve got computer issues and can’t readily find things now, but after the event I emailed our bunch with the clip, and in it you get the choice to watch the whole thing. Not in my post — just the clip is there. I missed the ones who weren’t there for how much deeper we would have gone. Ernesto and Johan had last minute issues, and are game for more. They are the best. I’ll include you in any follow-up.
BTW, Christy's reflection was that the more intimate size of the group that showed up allowed for making deeper connections. She came away feeling that one of the important values of the event was that of building relationships.
Yes in concept, but no sparks flew. It needs a prod for intros to get more imaginative. Like, if you had to introduce yourself to Brian in one sentence, what would it be? Good question? Tell them in advance to think about it?
Thank you, Ronald, for another thought-provoking article. Joseph Tainter argues that collapse occurs when the costs of sustaining a society outweigh the benefits, which aligns with P.R. Sarkar’s analysis of social breakdown.
Every complex civilization is vulnerable when people are exploited or killed, land and resources are misused, air and water are polluted, basic infrastructure is neglected, and economies are weakened by hyperinflation and declining purchasing power. In the past, such as ancient Rome, Egypt, and China, such a collapse was often more localized, but today the danger is global, especially as capitalism bursts under these pressures.
Rather than feeling despondent, we can view these threats to society and the planet as a necessary wake-up call that will move citizens toward positive, solution-oriented actions. The task ahead is to build a life-centered economy rooted in restorative balance and a transformation of consciousness.
Deep down, we all want love, compassion, and empathy for ourselves, our families, our communities, and our nations. The sooner we realize our full potential as sentient human beings on this planet, the sooner we can shape progressive economic, political, and spiritual policies that create a brighter future for all.
Exactly! Nature warns us when we are out of balance, on both the macro and micro levels. When we are out of balance physically, we feel pain. The more out of balance, the greater the pain - until we finally take the necessary steps to heal. This is true physically, mentally, and spiritually.
Ronald Logan: Thank you for sharing the story of Finland, I didn't know about their history. It gives me hope, and hope is the first thing I need restored.
There's so much that pulls us out of balance. Environmental pollution, devitalized foods, pervasive disinformation, degrading culture, two-tongued politicians, fundamentalist dogmas, ecological degradation, economic inequity, loss of community . . . the list goes on. Yes, it's occurring in all spheres of life -- physical, mental and spiritual.
It's a way of life that isn't working for us. As so many are sensing, we need something new. Which is why so many people and groups are bringing forward regenerative approaches and attempting to restore the balance.
In total, it will be a big undertaking. But as each of us takes up our part, we begin to make connections, build community, express deeper purpose -- all of which can bring new sources of joy in our lives.
I appreciate the article's emphasis on hope, dignity, and restoring balance, but I found myself wanting much more than broad principles. Complex societies don't drift into imbalance simply because people lose their way, nor do they recover because we remind one another to be kind. I wanted the author to explore the mechanisms: How do fear, greed, propaganda, concentrated wealth, failing institutions, media incentives, and tribal identity interact to move a society from one stage to the next? Likewise, restoring balance requires more than inspiration. Fairness is not the natural state of human societies; it is something we consciously construct and continually defend. Civilization asks us to temper our own impulses in service of the common good. That takes institutions, accountability, shared norms, and a willingness to place principles above personal advantage. Hope matters—but hope alone has never been enough.
If I had have reviewed my article, I might have expressed something along these same lines. My proclivity is to expound more on structural and practical solutions to our current problems.
Which is why I started with, "There are many big and small actions which can help initiate and sustain recursive regeneration." And why, in other articles, my focus has been on the mechanisms needed to restore societal balance. Dealing with greed and concentrated wealth has been a prominent theme on this Substack. As has dealing with tribal identities.
But in the 1500 words I had for this article I chose to develop the assertion that "An essential condition [for regeneration] is to heal and rebuild the damaged human psyche. Without vital human beings, possessing clear thinking and humanistic motivation, little can be done."
While this is not sufficient, it is essential. India lived under British colonial oppression for a couple hundred years before its people developed the mental vitality to revolt.
You remind us that "Civilization asks us to temper our own impulses in service of the common good." From my limited study of Finland's 20th Century experience, I believe this was the primary lesson that they assimilated.
Your assertion that "Fairness is not the natural state of human societies; it is something we consciously construct and continually defend" gets into terrain in which I lack expertise, but which I believe is an important area of research. There is now much to suggest that there is a strong proclivity for successful societies to be based in cooperation -- that the evolutionary selection of cooperative behaviors was key to the success of homo sapiens.
Which does negate the need of societies to defend equity and fairness.
If Terry Carrilio comes across this discussion, it might be helpful for her to weigh in.
Ron, I think this discussion gets to a core issue — going from the ideal to the real and back again.
It is important to focus on very day-to-day, real-life ways to make things better for people. That ends up meaning that policies, programs, and large-scale societal frameworks that support people are important. But so are norms, shared values, mutual respect, agreed-upon rules, and mores.
In the recursive collapse I’ve postulated, it seems to me that the entry points are at both the environmental layer and the personal layer. Those are what can begin to bolster the damaged middle layer — the civic psyche.
By civic psyche, I mean how we see ourselves in society, what we understand as our responsibilities toward others and their responsibilities toward us, and whether we still have enough shared reality, trust, agency, and mutual obligation to function together.
So people doing for each other, acting with care and restraint, aspiring toward more mutual respect and mutual accountability through everyday small interactions — all of that can make a huge difference. But if those actions co-occur with policies, programs, laws, and institutional scaffolding that many people are already beginning to think about, then the core degradation in the civic psyche can begin to recover.
That seems to me to be where recursive repair might begin: personal conduct and civic structures reinforcing one another until trust, reality-testing, and mutual obligation become more possible again.
I have just reviewed the draft of Christy's reflection piece on the "Recursive Regeneration" article. There's much in it that overlaps with your reply to NinaMatilda and me. And, you'll be interested to note, much of her reflection is based "on very day-to-day, real-life ways to make things better for people". In her case it is her experience with recovery efforts in Lahina, Hawaii.
She also lands where you do, that the best environment for recursive repair to gain traction is where "personal conduct and civic structures reinforce one another."
I enjoyed your post, Mr. Logan. It was helpful with the questions I have been dealing with lately. As the midterms near, the lies, misinformation and propaganda are in full blown operational mode. The republicans have latched on to Democrats embracing socialism which makes them communist. Now, I did some homework to determine the difference between socialism and communism. After determining that, I looked at our government. We are called a Constitutional Republic. In this Constitutional Republic there are elements of socialism and capitalism. We have pulled from different ideologies to form our Constitutional Republic. As I pondered what I had found out, I couldn't help but think capitalism has and is trying to push out socialism. The oligarchs want more money because of their greed. The rest of us want to ensure the programs that are helpful and beneficial to ALL Americans remain in place and are funded. A huge divide has opened up with one side calling empathy, compassion, integrity and morality weaknesses and only strong men should be in charge using whatever means necessary. The other side is calling brutality, cruelty, lies and brute force unnecessary evils and there should be a place for everyone in our country. One side hates everything relating to socialism. The other side hates everything relating to capitalism. While I would love our country to be like Finland and be happy and united. My fear is that we are facing a brutal civil war just like Finland had to go through. I don't see either side willing to meet in the middle and find common ground! I do not want anyone to think that I am 'throwing in the towel' so to speak, but there are days when it is hard for me to do the work I have been doing to get out the vote and resisting this corrupt regime. Thank you again, Mr. Logan, for your insightful and educational posts. They are enlightening.
I quoted you in my Substack this week, where I continue to argue for uplifting humanity, so we are proud of being such an extraordinary species, as the best focus for our survival.
Uniting us in a new story
Getting us excited about how the world could be
https://suzannetaylor.substack.com/p/uniting-us-in-a-new-story
Ronald Logan, in Regeneration of America’s Damaged Civic Psyche, reported this: “Finland was a profoundly divided nation. One hundred years ago, no one could have imagined that Finland was destined to become the world’s happiest country. Finland’s Civil War was the most deadly to have happened in Europe. Finland went from Europe’s most miserable country to the world’s happiest, from the most divided people to the most united.”
Ron, I am deeply grateful for your shout out to my work in this piece you just published.
I very much appreciate your taking the recursive process idea to the next level. By moving it past diagnosis to repair, and thinking about it recursively you’ve opened up some promising new ways to frame repair efforts.
To recover from the difficult crisis point we are in we will need to work on creating realistic and trustworthy containers that provide: shared reality, accountable authority, trustworthy and transparent institutions, material supports, and day to day practices that offer people agency, mutual obligation and real-life experiences of repair. It seems to me that such a process will be one that looks like “two steps forward, one step back” as we move steadily toward new ways of organizing personal, social, and civic contexts.
Your article offers a hopeful approach to the task ahead.
What I’ve been coming down to for what would underlie the best chance we have for a successful future is to infuse humanity with a sense of its magnificence. We are such hot stuff among the creatures. The only ones who can affect the creation. Wow. My post today is about that. Listen to Brian Swimme for the essence of what humanity could get excited about: https://suzannetaylor.substack.com/p/get-real-that-could-be-a-campaign.
Suzanne: Christy reported to me at length about the great program you organized in which Brian was the featured guest. I regretted missing it. So I'm glad you've posted a short video by Brian in your latest article. Did you happen to record the whole meeting with him?
As you've probably noticed, I've been a bit overwhelmed of late and have had to cut back some. This has resulted in my admiring your initiatives from a distance but not being there to actively support them. In the instance of the program with Brain, this was my loss.
I’ve got computer issues and can’t readily find things now, but after the event I emailed our bunch with the clip, and in it you get the choice to watch the whole thing. Not in my post — just the clip is there. I missed the ones who weren’t there for how much deeper we would have gone. Ernesto and Johan had last minute issues, and are game for more. They are the best. I’ll include you in any follow-up.
Yes, please include me.
BTW, Christy's reflection was that the more intimate size of the group that showed up allowed for making deeper connections. She came away feeling that one of the important values of the event was that of building relationships.
Yes in concept, but no sparks flew. It needs a prod for intros to get more imaginative. Like, if you had to introduce yourself to Brian in one sentence, what would it be? Good question? Tell them in advance to think about it?
Thank you, Ronald, for another thought-provoking article. Joseph Tainter argues that collapse occurs when the costs of sustaining a society outweigh the benefits, which aligns with P.R. Sarkar’s analysis of social breakdown.
Every complex civilization is vulnerable when people are exploited or killed, land and resources are misused, air and water are polluted, basic infrastructure is neglected, and economies are weakened by hyperinflation and declining purchasing power. In the past, such as ancient Rome, Egypt, and China, such a collapse was often more localized, but today the danger is global, especially as capitalism bursts under these pressures.
Rather than feeling despondent, we can view these threats to society and the planet as a necessary wake-up call that will move citizens toward positive, solution-oriented actions. The task ahead is to build a life-centered economy rooted in restorative balance and a transformation of consciousness.
Deep down, we all want love, compassion, and empathy for ourselves, our families, our communities, and our nations. The sooner we realize our full potential as sentient human beings on this planet, the sooner we can shape progressive economic, political, and spiritual policies that create a brighter future for all.
Exactly! Nature warns us when we are out of balance, on both the macro and micro levels. When we are out of balance physically, we feel pain. The more out of balance, the greater the pain - until we finally take the necessary steps to heal. This is true physically, mentally, and spiritually.
Ronald Logan: Thank you for sharing the story of Finland, I didn't know about their history. It gives me hope, and hope is the first thing I need restored.
There's so much that pulls us out of balance. Environmental pollution, devitalized foods, pervasive disinformation, degrading culture, two-tongued politicians, fundamentalist dogmas, ecological degradation, economic inequity, loss of community . . . the list goes on. Yes, it's occurring in all spheres of life -- physical, mental and spiritual.
It's a way of life that isn't working for us. As so many are sensing, we need something new. Which is why so many people and groups are bringing forward regenerative approaches and attempting to restore the balance.
In total, it will be a big undertaking. But as each of us takes up our part, we begin to make connections, build community, express deeper purpose -- all of which can bring new sources of joy in our lives.
I appreciate the article's emphasis on hope, dignity, and restoring balance, but I found myself wanting much more than broad principles. Complex societies don't drift into imbalance simply because people lose their way, nor do they recover because we remind one another to be kind. I wanted the author to explore the mechanisms: How do fear, greed, propaganda, concentrated wealth, failing institutions, media incentives, and tribal identity interact to move a society from one stage to the next? Likewise, restoring balance requires more than inspiration. Fairness is not the natural state of human societies; it is something we consciously construct and continually defend. Civilization asks us to temper our own impulses in service of the common good. That takes institutions, accountability, shared norms, and a willingness to place principles above personal advantage. Hope matters—but hope alone has never been enough.
If I had have reviewed my article, I might have expressed something along these same lines. My proclivity is to expound more on structural and practical solutions to our current problems.
Which is why I started with, "There are many big and small actions which can help initiate and sustain recursive regeneration." And why, in other articles, my focus has been on the mechanisms needed to restore societal balance. Dealing with greed and concentrated wealth has been a prominent theme on this Substack. As has dealing with tribal identities.
But in the 1500 words I had for this article I chose to develop the assertion that "An essential condition [for regeneration] is to heal and rebuild the damaged human psyche. Without vital human beings, possessing clear thinking and humanistic motivation, little can be done."
While this is not sufficient, it is essential. India lived under British colonial oppression for a couple hundred years before its people developed the mental vitality to revolt.
You remind us that "Civilization asks us to temper our own impulses in service of the common good." From my limited study of Finland's 20th Century experience, I believe this was the primary lesson that they assimilated.
Your assertion that "Fairness is not the natural state of human societies; it is something we consciously construct and continually defend" gets into terrain in which I lack expertise, but which I believe is an important area of research. There is now much to suggest that there is a strong proclivity for successful societies to be based in cooperation -- that the evolutionary selection of cooperative behaviors was key to the success of homo sapiens.
Which does negate the need of societies to defend equity and fairness.
If Terry Carrilio comes across this discussion, it might be helpful for her to weigh in.
Ron, I think this discussion gets to a core issue — going from the ideal to the real and back again.
It is important to focus on very day-to-day, real-life ways to make things better for people. That ends up meaning that policies, programs, and large-scale societal frameworks that support people are important. But so are norms, shared values, mutual respect, agreed-upon rules, and mores.
In the recursive collapse I’ve postulated, it seems to me that the entry points are at both the environmental layer and the personal layer. Those are what can begin to bolster the damaged middle layer — the civic psyche.
By civic psyche, I mean how we see ourselves in society, what we understand as our responsibilities toward others and their responsibilities toward us, and whether we still have enough shared reality, trust, agency, and mutual obligation to function together.
So people doing for each other, acting with care and restraint, aspiring toward more mutual respect and mutual accountability through everyday small interactions — all of that can make a huge difference. But if those actions co-occur with policies, programs, laws, and institutional scaffolding that many people are already beginning to think about, then the core degradation in the civic psyche can begin to recover.
That seems to me to be where recursive repair might begin: personal conduct and civic structures reinforcing one another until trust, reality-testing, and mutual obligation become more possible again.
I have just reviewed the draft of Christy's reflection piece on the "Recursive Regeneration" article. There's much in it that overlaps with your reply to NinaMatilda and me. And, you'll be interested to note, much of her reflection is based "on very day-to-day, real-life ways to make things better for people". In her case it is her experience with recovery efforts in Lahina, Hawaii.
She also lands where you do, that the best environment for recursive repair to gain traction is where "personal conduct and civic structures reinforce one another."
Thanks for the follow up. I am just now putting something together that reflects a bit more on your idea of recursive repair.
I enjoyed your post, Mr. Logan. It was helpful with the questions I have been dealing with lately. As the midterms near, the lies, misinformation and propaganda are in full blown operational mode. The republicans have latched on to Democrats embracing socialism which makes them communist. Now, I did some homework to determine the difference between socialism and communism. After determining that, I looked at our government. We are called a Constitutional Republic. In this Constitutional Republic there are elements of socialism and capitalism. We have pulled from different ideologies to form our Constitutional Republic. As I pondered what I had found out, I couldn't help but think capitalism has and is trying to push out socialism. The oligarchs want more money because of their greed. The rest of us want to ensure the programs that are helpful and beneficial to ALL Americans remain in place and are funded. A huge divide has opened up with one side calling empathy, compassion, integrity and morality weaknesses and only strong men should be in charge using whatever means necessary. The other side is calling brutality, cruelty, lies and brute force unnecessary evils and there should be a place for everyone in our country. One side hates everything relating to socialism. The other side hates everything relating to capitalism. While I would love our country to be like Finland and be happy and united. My fear is that we are facing a brutal civil war just like Finland had to go through. I don't see either side willing to meet in the middle and find common ground! I do not want anyone to think that I am 'throwing in the towel' so to speak, but there are days when it is hard for me to do the work I have been doing to get out the vote and resisting this corrupt regime. Thank you again, Mr. Logan, for your insightful and educational posts. They are enlightening.